Messages

Are we there yet?

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This question is aimed at our two co-travellers who fully support Trump and everything he does and say he has a democratic mandate ( that's lancellot)
or who say 'let's give him a fair chance, he's done some good stuff, let's wait and see (that's Harambe)

Are we there yet - at that point where it finally dawns on you that trump has every intention of being a completely lawless president who disregards the Constitution and ignores every law that he wants to because 'hey, I'm the president and I can do what I want.'

The question arises most notably with the latest episode where the administration decided in their infinite wisdom to send a bunch of floks who may or may not have been Venezuelan and who may or may not have been members of a criminal gang to the tender mercies of El Salvador where they have now been thrust into indefinite detention in what seems like a rather nasty terrorist prison.

Oh, I forgot to mention that they may also have been or not been American citizens. Who could know?

When a judge found out about this she immediately ordered that the whole process should immediately stop - that any planes already in the air should turn around and any still in the US should definitely not take off. Trump and/or his officials (widely reported that the ghoulish Stephen Miller was heavily involved) simply gave a big FU to the judge - two planes kept flying and a third one later took off.

So there you have it - Trump openly defying a court order although it is possible that by tomorrow they will have tried some weaselly way of justifying what they have done.

All of this is BAD for a variety of reasons:
1. There does not seem to have been any legal process to determine whether or not these prisoners were or were not actually members of a criminal gang.
2. Even if they were they have not been convicted of anything.
3. The president of El Salvador seems to be as much f a clown as Trump is and has promised to keep the men detained as long as Trump wants him to.
4. There is no public record of their identities - they could very well simply vanish off the face of the earth.
5. Trump is relying on a rarely used wartime Act applying to 'Enemy Aliens' to justify their deportation. The US is not at war so the Act clearly can't apply.
6. Most people think that defying a court order is a really bad thing.

I'll ask the question again. How far does this man have to go before you say, 'Too much.'?

last time I believe I phrased it as 'Does he have to rape your sister in front of you? Would that be enough?

Maybe this time I can ask 'Does he have to illegally lock up and deport a member of your family or a close colleague? Would that be your tipping point?

How about 'Does he have to name you in a widely broadcast speech as one of his personal enemies as he did to various lawyers in his speech at the DOJ this week? That would ruin your life, but would it be enough to make you see the evil that exists in this poor excuse for a human being?

Have at it!

RE: Are we there yet?

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The problem is that this is a sledgehammer to crack a nut. A nut that actually could have been opened with a lot less mess.

The goal is to get America producing more and importing less, yes?

Ok, so far so good in principle. But to do that, you have to change decades of companies relying on mass production from overseas. This means businesses need the time and the money to put the infrastructure in place to do the manufacturing themselves.

Both the public and the businesses needed to see this laid out as a long term plan. Trump's proposals for enabling the rebuilding of the infrastructure needed for manufacture and how that would look going forward. What support would there be for businesses during the transition period? What is the expected timescale of said transition period? What will this ultimately mean for the American consumers?

This isn't an attempt to undo policies Biden introduced last term, this is an attempt to change decades of industry practices which have been positively encouraged for the last 50-odd years and are, in fact, pretty central to the lifestyle of the average American, because outsourced manufacture has, undeniably, meant the average American is using products and wearing clothes it wouldn't have been able to afford otherwise. Outsourcing hasn't happened because America wanted to do the world a favour.

So, to dismantle all that means a seismic shift in expectations of costs, etc. was this in Trump's manifesto presented to the public prior to election. Were the pros and cons clearly outlined? Was it explained how manufacturing in America could be done at similar costs without treating the workforce as they are treated in Communist China?

It's the absolute lack of thought, forward planning and proper engagement about consequences and how they will be mitigated, not 'everybody hates Trump'.

I'm astounded at the naivety of it all, the basic lack of understanding of how and why America arrived at this point in terms of manufacturing in the first place.

RE: Are we there yet?

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^^ well said by Scarbrems

RE: Are we there yet?

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Thank you, Harambe.

At the bottom of this is an attitude, displayed to a degree by Lancelott, here, that America's involvement with the rest of the world is one way traffic in favour of the rest of the world.

It's an attitude I see in my own country. Yes, we had an empire, but we haven't now. We aren't graciously bestowing our largess on the rest of the world by generously giving our manufacturing to for eg, India and China.

And don't get me started on the fundamental misunderstanding of our relationship with Europe that led to the vote for Brexit.

It's a staggering level of arrogance not by any means unique to America, but evident in the current climate. That the ROW needs America more than America needs the ROW.

Maybe 60 odd years ago, there might have been truth in that. Decades on, the complex nature of trade in the digital age, with countries that have, in many ways, stolen a march on the West industrially, presents a much different business climate.

RE: Are we there yet?

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Scarbrems,

I don't quite understand some of what you posted.

"The average American is using products and wearing clothes it wouldn't have been able to afford otherwise, outsourcing hasn't happened because America wanted to do the world a favour"

What was being done, was to get the products into this country, and services made available to this country at the lowest costs...products were made, countries sold to the United States, and were bought.

All of that may not have been what the United States should have been doing, but eventually things did have to change.

Yes, I would buy products made overseas, not only from China, but from other sources as well, why? simply because they were made available to me,
at a saving I wanted to make.

You seem to be saying that if not for China, (for example) people here would not have been able to buy clothing (only because you mentioned clothes).

I can say to you this...what caused me to stop buying
such garments, was that I found them to also be unable to last, (using them as regularly as one does)often because of the types of fabric that was used, or the differences in both sizing and quality of actual work.

I found myself buying the same things over again because of all of that...and eventually it was necessary to become a lot more careful of what I bought...and yes, pay a bit more.

I had to make that clear, because I know that to be the case for many people.

What trump is doing, has more to do with his ignorance, and his ego, than it does for the benefit of industry here.

Yes, we do need to have changes made when it comes to having this country being able to produce more of the things we need and make more jobs available.

But, this worldwide tariff idea that trump seems to see as the way to get to that, is of course without merit, and is only causing more hardship for those that can least afford what's happening, when it come to the cost factor. Also what he's doing is certainly
causing unnecessary international discord.

There is too much that would have to be carefully discussed before any real changes could be made here..and that could never be done with the current differences of thought that is being shown right now.

I also realize that Americans are not as well liked throughout the world as some think, but there has been a kind of respect for Democracy that I had thought kept countries together, because of that same ideal.

trump is disturbing that togetherness, in ways that go far deeper than trade...he is clearly trying to get the United States to stand alone, when such is the opposite of what is needed for all peace loving countries to be doing today.

trump idealizes the one man, one rule ideal, and
has convinced the republican party, and the wealthiest of this country that it can benefit them.

he's clearly demonstrating a disregard for the constitution, and the rule of law, and tries to
put in high level area of government only those
that seem to allow him to continue to do so.

Some of those people have also shown a lack of
both knowledge, and experience for such positions.

I may not be as knowledgable as some, but a bit of common sense can go a long way...and the kind of
see no evil, know no evil, that some choose to practice here, makes no sense to me.

Just Some Thoughts...

RE: Are we there yet?

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>> that some choose to practice here, makes no sense to me

Victoria, when I called you out earlier on being passive aggressive, this is exactly the kind of crap I was talking about. If you have something to say to me, say it.

RE: Are we there yet?

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He said it better than I could.

RE: Are we there yet?

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What...I wasn't posting about you, Harambe, I don't pay that much attention to your posts.
You're opinions are not important enough to me, to even read...and that's the truth.

But...If I wanted to sat anything specifically to you, or about you, I would have done so.

My post was about the tariffs, and trump's administration...Get over yourself, your comments are yours, and of no interest to me.

My concerns are about the people I care about and how they are being ignored by an administration that sees no evil, and knows no evil, in anything that's being done here.




Just Some Thoughts

RE: Are we there yet?
Message edited:

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RE: Are we there yet?

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You can't stand being wrong, yes here meaning
HERE..in this country...that's what my post was about...You're a real joke...

Just Some Thoughts

RE: Are we there yet?

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Why do I get this feeling that one of Stephen A.'s major gripe with Democrats is their support of the transgender LGBTQ+ community, whom he appears to dislike? Just a feeling.

America, via its majority vote, simply showed that it was not willing to accept a colored female as president, which had little to do with the popularity of Trump's campaign promises. Harris promised far better things, but America didn't care because of who she is.

If Biden had done better in the debates and was more physically and mentally fit, or the Democrats had picked a white guy to replace Biden as their nominee, like even say Harris's VP candidate Tim Waltz, the Democrats would have won both the White House and Congress--handily.

But, let's not cry over/dwell on spilt milk. We are where we are and have to deal with it.