The Ukraine War
<< Thread Modifed February 8 at 1:56PM >>
I'm starting this thread regarding a neglected topic: the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine, which is about to turn three years old.
It seems Putin is not negotiating, so it's the US's play. And we may have some news on that within the next week. Bargaining chips could include the following:
-turning Russia's $300B in confiscated assets until Ukrainian weapons
-insisting Europe cough up more money to fund Ukraine defense and rebuilding
-Ukraine gives the US access to mineral resources. Good, everyone is finally coming around to what this war is really about: the economic national interest of the US vs Russia.
Wars begin with all sorts of rationalizations, best intentions, propaganda, and fanfare. They end with guarantees on trade security and division of resources.
CD Richards
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RE: The Ukraine War
US withdraws from formal Ukraine peace negotiations
So it's official. Trump has got what he wanted - a minerals deal, and now he's walking away. What a shock.
It's probably for the best that he keep his grubby nose out of it. Hopefully Europe/NATO and their allies will prove better friends to Ukraine.
Congratulations to President Trump on ending the Russian invasion in one day, as promised.
RE: The Ukraine War
Craig, you missed the important part of the announcement. Trump has finally figured out that Russia was playing with him, and the withdrawal from talks
comes with weapons shipments to Kyiv. It sounds like the right play to pressure Russia. Better late than never.
RE: The Ukraine War
So, Harambe, I can interpret your words to indicate that you think Trump is even dumber than Craig and I have been making him out to be.
Really, he is the only person in the world not to know that Putin was toying with him?
RE: The Ukraine War
Wonder what Putin will make of it?
RE: The Ukraine War
Message edited:
No Steve, I interpret you as being somehow incapable of recognizing a good thing regardless of the source when you have strong feelings towards a subject.
We may continue to see rhetorical oscillation from Trump on Ukraine but what really matters is the actions taken. Putin got a chance for a fresh start and he seems to have spent it doing what he always does: lie. If you take the worst possible view of Trump, that he is also a liar, well liars are often the most talented at spotting other liars.
CD Richards
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RE: The Ukraine War
That he is a liar is far from the "worst possible view" one can have of Trump.
RE: The Ukraine War
Let's stay on subject. Do you or Craig have anything to add other than negative spin on Trump's seeming pivot to back Ukraine, since it's now abundantly clear that Russia had no intention of ending hostilities?
CD Richards
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RE: The Ukraine War
Message edited:
I *am* Craig. Should we consider it racist that we all look the same to you?
It was clear from the moment he crossed into Ukranian territory that Putin wasn't leaving until he got what he wanted. He never intended to negotiate.
I'm undecided about Trump's latest of many flip-flops. OK, it would be nice if Ukraine had US support. But what would lead us to believe Trump can be trusted? He's always been on Putin's side. He had a crush on Putin before Zelensky was even in the picture, so why the sudden change? What if he just decides to turn his back on Ukraine again, in a fit of pique over something?
Then, I'm also afraid that this might cause NATO, Europe and other nations to back off on their contributions to the effort to stop the murderous Russian dictator. Ukraine can't afford that, especially when the US is not a reliable ally. I am still of the opinion that Russian forces need to be got out of Ukraine, and it shouldn't fall entirely on Ukraine's shoulders to accomplish that. If the US is serious, good, prove it. If not, get out of the way.
RE: The Ukraine War
Yeah sorry, those of you in the human race do all look kind of similar. Maybe you could start using avatars like me.
It's not clear yet that the rest of Europe is even serious on committing the magnitude of funding required to get Russia out of Ukraine, with or without the US. It will cost probably 150B euros or dollars a year to defeat Russia and about a trillion to rebuild. So far
Europe and the US have collectively sent like 150B, so 50B a year. But
Russia is now spending maybe $150B a year. So they will win without the West at least tripling its support.
RE: The Ukraine War
Start with what we know...
No one, ever, should trust one thing that either Trump or Putin says or does.
Trump wanted to end the war not because war is bad and innocents were suffering and a successful military gain for Russia would be a disaster for the world - he wanted to (and wants to) end it because Obama won the Peace Prize and no black man can possibly be better than him.
The irony is that, on entering office, he had an enormous opportunity to stop the war. International opinion was almost unanimously on his side. Sanctions on Russia were slowly but inexorably working. Europe was united in support and the majority of US citizens also supported Ukraine.
In other words, Donny 2 Dolls had all the cards to play a winning hand. This is what he should have done...
1. Make a public statement that the US was even more strongly going to support Ukraine politically, financially and militarily.
2. Give that statement some meat by announcing more and better weapons for Ukraine and encouraging European allies to do the same.
3. Ratchet up sanctions
4. tell Putin that this was going to be the position of the US for the foreseeable future.
Russia was already on the back foot at that point. Now they are strengthened and emboldened because they see a wavering and weak US president who appears from many angles to be on their side.
Sorry, Doony you had that Nobel thing almost within your grasp, but you were too freaking dumb to take it!
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